Phil Donahue: Pleased to welcome you to part two of the Donahue two-part program featuring Minister Louis Farrakhan, who, at the end of our last program, left an awful lot of unhappy people in our audience. Not necessarily unhappy at anything he said, but unhappy because they had no time at all to say anything. So this is our attempt to give you an opportunity to express yourself and ask Minister Farrakhan to respond. Whom didn't we... Yes. Yes.
Audience 1: I would just like to say that I am terrified that even you, someone who is obviously educated, has given up hope completely. When you call upon us, you say white folk, you say black people, Jewish people. Why can't we come together? We obviously can come together. We just have to, we just have to find a way to do it.
Minister Louis Farrahkan: The desire is good. But the reality is the total opposite of your desire. And unfortunately, as a young lady, you are not in the position of power to make the decisions to make America work.
Audience 1: You don't-
Minister Louis Farrahkan: May I? As an audience of intelligent people, I would like to just take a moment to say to you that I really don't think you fully understand what has happened to these people that you look at as second-class or inferior citizens in this nation. Black people who were brought to this country were stripped of their names, language, culture, religion, God, and taken totally away from the history of themselves. Here are 30 million people who don't wear their own names. They wear your names. Who don't speak their own language. They speak English, which is not their language. They never, never were allowed their own cultural expression of Africa.
Don't you realise that when you turn a people upside-down and inside-out, then sell them, not for a day, not for a year, but for 300 years, and deny us the human right to know, to read a book, to learn, to understand. And then after 300 years of that, you allow us into the church. But by that time, you've painted Jesus white, God white, the angels white. And then all these black people have been subjected to a form of white supremacy, which produces in the reverse, a black inferiority. And this is fulfilling what Jesus said as a man, "Thinketh." So is He, and as long as our people think the way they think, we will never be able to do what we as a people should do to correct darkened vision.
Phil Donahue: Over here, please.
Audience 2: Several people in the audience have said the things that he's saying, but you really haven't been specific. What is he saying that you have a problem with? And why is it when a black man stands up to speak for his people and all the people stand up and speak for their people, there's no problem with it. But you're saying, "He said black. He said Jew." When people talk, they talk like that. But why is it when a black man stands up to speak for his people, you feel so threatened? Everybody's paranoid. And you talk about, it's not segregation. We live in Harlem. We live in Watts. We live in Bedford-Stuyvesant. That's a form of segregation. We walk through Bensonhurst, we get killed. So what are you talking about?
Audience 3: What I'd like to say, there was somebody over there in the audience who said that they were afraid. They were scared of when they were talking about the... What he was saying. You see. And what I'm saying is the other day, you asked Mandela that same question about fearing, white people fearing, what will the black folks do and stuff. We should be running down the street, screaming, ramping, and raving. Because when you look at the statistics, who is the one dying? From the policemen, from the KKK, from the skinheads, from the black people. We're getting-
Phil Donahue: If anybody should be scared, it should be the people going-
Audience 3: Right. It should be us who should be scared of y'all sitting in here.
Audience 4: Excuse me. I was brought up in quote, Bedford-Stuyvesant, in my town, but I would like to say what scares us is I think we hear violence.
Minister Louis Farrahkan: May I respond? May I respond, please? I'm sorry.
Audience 5: All right, Minister Farrakhan, would you explain why it is relevant at this stage, in 1990, with all that we've gone through, why it is still relevant to try and to educate or to get white people to understand the plight of black people. Shouldn't the energy be directed to us?
Audience 6: Right on.
Minister Louis Farrahkan: If I may. My work is directly to black people. I spend 99% of my time dealing with us to help us reform our minds and spirit, that we may do for ourselves. However, when you live in a society like this, and we know that in order to affect a solution to a problem between black and white, then there's going to have to be some meaningful dialogue between black and white in order to affect a solution.
The young lady said she's afraid of violence and isn't it sad that we who have been the victims of so much violence, now, whites fear violence from us. We do not have a history of killing white people. White people have a history of killing us. And what you fear... May I say this, sir? What you fear, and it's a deep guilt thing that white folks suffer. You are afraid that if we ever come to power, we will do to you and your fathers, what you and your people have done to us. And I think you are judging us by the state of your own mind. And that is not necessarily the mind of black people.
Audience 6: I'm with you in that you're talking about wanting to have meaningful dialogue and that's a problem, right away. I don't know what's going to make whites happy, for Pete's sake. You're talking about trying to find a solution to your problem. You're trying hard to do that. And we're tuning you right out. We're arguing with you. We're not agreeing with anything. We're not trying to give you a chance. For Pete's sake, what do we want?
Audience 7: As-salamu alaikum. Minister Farrakhan, there's a situation now with one in four black males are in prison or in jail or in some type of probation situation. When I look around, even myself being a black reporter, and they talk about racism of a black and white person go to the job, a black person's going to get the job. I never find that out. And we're in New York City with a black mayor and I still haven't seen it. And when I see Minister Farrakhan, not only the brother's enlightened me, but he gives me hope to not give up, not go get a pistol and stick somebody up. So when I see you, not only are you to lighten the hope, but I think, white America, you need to listen, and please don't harm this brother because we love him.
Audience 8: Getting back to what she said, what exactly do we have a problem with? Before you made a statement, you said that I think that... Well, not of. You said that white people think that you're inferior to us. I don't believe that. I'm part of the youth of America. I am not prejudiced. I feel more prejudiced right now than I've ever felt. Not against black. I am not prejudiced against black people. Some of my best friends are black people. I am... What's the problem with that? You let him speak. Let me speak.
Phil Donahue: You wanted to speak to this young woman?
Audience 9: No, no. I don't want to speak to that-
Phil Donahue: Who wants to talk to her? Yeah.
Audience 10: What do you mean, you feel more prejudiced right now?
Speaker 12: Because the way he's saying, he's-
Phil Donahue: Because why?
Audience 2: What he's saying right now. I mean, I feel that you are prejudiced towards white people.
Speaker 4: Excuse me. Excuse me. I think it's like he said, it might be a fear or misunderstanding that you have, because what fear has he put or what has he actually said here today that makes you feel prejudiced?
Speaker 12: I think that he said that we think that they're inferior. I think it's partly part of your own complex that you have to get over because I don't feel you're inferior. I've nothing against black people.
Speaker 14: Excuse me, excuse me. This is the situation. Every young white adult says, "I have not done this to black people. I have not done that to black people." But your forefathers are the ones who have set us in the situation we are in. Now, what I am saying is this. When Matt Turner stood up, you all rejected him. You killed him. When Marcus Garvey stood up, you all rejected him, enslaved him. He died a broken heart.
Now, what I am saying is this, your fathers have put us in the condition we are in. And today, you are profiting from what your forefathers have done. Now. Now. My grandchildren are going to be raised and your children are going to say to them, they have not done to them, because you are the ones who are going to do to my grandchildren, what they're going to experience if the situation continues. Now, what I am saying is this. When we talk about America falling, what we are saying is this. If you all want to control America, then we must have a land base that we control. You all cannot continue printing the dollar bill and then expect us to abide by your rules when you do not want to give us jobs. Therefore, I am saying that we have now got to come into negotiations and Minister Farrakhan is the man to listen to.
Minister Louis ...: It becomes apparent more and more, as we listen to each other and try to talk to each other, that we don't perceive reality the same. And as we're talking about either reconciling differences or separating, it becomes clear that if two people are looking at the same thing and perceiving it so differently, then the two people are operating under a different stimulus. And so, when the young lady says, "I am prejudiced." To be prejudiced means to judge before the fact. After 400 years of living and experiencing, we're not prejudiced. We are looking at the reality of what we have suffered and continue to suffer.
Phil Donahue: Are you there? Are you there, caller?
Speaker 15: Yes.
Phil Donahue: Thank you for waiting. I am sorry it took us a while to get you, but go ahead. I know you'll be brief.
Speaker 15: I'm a white American, born into poverty, and our repayment. You know, the opportunities are here in America and why can't we just start now? We hear all this violence. Why can't we just talk in a positive way and go forward, instead of remembering all these things that are in the past that are negative, they were not good for [crosstalk 00:12:05] or white people.
Phil Donahue: Yes, Minister Farrakhan commenting.
Minister Louis Farrahkan: According to the state of black America, by the Urban League. "If we started right now," they said, "We could never close the gap to black poverty and white poverty." She said, "Let us start right now. Let's forget the past." Notice this.
When Jewish people remember the Holocaust and want the world to remember the Holocaust. Wait, wait, wait. Why do you want the world to remember? Because if the world does not remember, it is likely to repeat itself, and Jewish persons who suffered from the Holocaust want the world to remember this because the world turned its back while Jews were put in ovens. I, as a black person, want my people to remember what we have suffered and what we continue to suffer so that we will say, like the Jews, "Never again. Never again."
Speaker 16: Okay. I've been listening in this corner right here and I've heard a whole lot of negative things from the white people here. When you were trying to explain yourself, the white people don't want to hear you explain yourself, they drown you out. They start already trying to drown you out and talk over you. There's a certain amount of white arrogance here and they don't want to listen to what black people are saying. They don't understand because they don't want to understand. I've heard a woman here say, "Go back to Africa." Somebody said, "We have a black holiday. What does that mean?" So what? What does that mean? He did not say that, he said, if we have a choice, what some of us can go and some of us can stay. But there's no understanding in here. People are just trying to talk.
Minister Louis Farrahkan Just remember, just remember, to those arrogant persons. When you tell us, "Go back," please remember where you came from. And when you want to relegate somebody to a specific place, just remember what your origin is in this world. Please, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I want you to understand that you, wherever you are on the earth, you are not a native anywhere. You came there and took it from the native people who are there. So please don't talk about going back because if others talk to you about that, where would you go?